I have been putting all this medical school stuff into perspective recently.
2014/ 15- David's internship year in Columbus
2015/ 19- residency in Florida
2019/ 20- Fellowship (David will most likely complete one)
2020- His first real job (assuming the job market is good)
How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession
Before David and I got married, while I was substituting in an elementary school I overheard a teacher having a conversation with her friend (lets call her Mrs. Smith). Mrs. Smith was telling her friend how her mother was worried about her brother who was currently a resident somewhere, working crazy hours and only making $45,000. Then Mrs. Smith went on to tell her friend that she only made 30 something a year and had been teaching for 9 years. At the time I thought it was unfortunate since she had worked so long and was still making less than her brother.
>>Fast forward. When David and I got married we moved our lives out to Toledo to start medical school. I knew I was in for the long haul. David didn't know what he wanted to specialize in, but I knew that most likely from August 2010 until 2018-ish we would be in some form of school/ training program. I knew medical school costed a LOT. like a whole house.
As I met people here in Toledo other than church (because so many of them either went to medical school or were local so they had seen it) they would comment and almost immediately write me off as being "rich". I can't quite explain it but once people knew my husband was in medical school they treated me differently. Not in a rude or mean way, but differently. What's funny is at first I kind of felt similarly to the way they treated me. I still had a firm grasp on how much debt we would have to pay off first, but I knew we would be coming out the other side better off.
>>Fast forward. I have now almost completed school myself and even with my BEST effort to earn scholarships and search out grants I too now have student debt. Recently David had a required student debt meeting for his class and I decided to attend with him. This was when I finally saw just how much we owed..... it was a lot. This was also when I realized that basically no matter what we do by the time we actually get to a financial situation where we can REALLY truly start paying off our debt it will have ALMOST doubled because of interest. I won't give specific numbers because this is not a private blog but I have about $25,000 in debt and let's just say that is about 10% of what David's debt is.
Now I better understand the mistake that Mrs. Smith, who I talked about at the beginning of all of this, made. She was frustrated that her brother was making more than her as a resident and it's true her brother might have been making more, BUT he had already lost money by attending 4 extra years of school and accruing hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. I never noticed how much people act or assume all doctors are wealthy until David started medical school.
With all the Obama care stuff, health care issues and doctor shortages there couldn't be a more tumultuous time to be joining the medical field. To put it bluntly doctors are not usually just rolling in cash unless they are lucky enough to come from a wealthy family, have invested well, or they are a plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills, CA. That might sound like a lot of unless-s but it's not. As for us I sat down recently and plotted out what our lives our going to be like for the next little while the fullness of just how "un-rich" we will be for the foreseeable future hit me. And here is the math.
2014/ 15- David's internship year in Columbus
2015/ 19- residency in Florida
2019/ 20- Fellowship (David will most likely complete one)
2020- His first real job (assuming the job market is good)
And the last timeline is the big kicker. So during the next 6 years we will probably be making VERY minimal if any payments on David's loans at all. Its kind of difficult to make substantial payments on debt like his with a 50K salary and a growing family. If David's first real job (2020) gave us a net income of $180k, and we only lived on $80k for 6 years, and nothing horrible happened we MIGHT have our loans payed off by the end of 2026. This means our first year of solvency would be 2027. And this does not include cars, houses, business loans, my loans or any other surprises that could come our way.
2026/ 26- pay off loans
2027- We are solvent?!
2026/ 26- pay off loans
2027- We are solvent?!
In general though medical school loans typically take about 10 years to pay off. A ten to fifteen year pay off plan is a pretty good goal for most doctors, but having a 25 year loan like a house is not uncommon.
So what does that mean for our family? Well here is the other math. By the time 2027 rolls around It will have been-
21 and 24 years since our high school graduations
13 and 18 years since we graduated college and
13 years since David graduated medical school.
We will be 38 and 41 years old, Davie will be 15, and Macy will be 13.
Plus however many other kids we have and as of right now I'm thinking (at the very least) we will have 2 more.
So yea, if you are stalking me on this blog because you are trying to get my personal information, to steel my identity and then take all my money, well I got news for you. We don't have any. So the joke's on you, ha!
Looking at timelines and numbers like this definitely make me wonder what our lives would have been like if David had become a chemical engineer. Just for fun let me tell you that his friend (and 6 people total from his graduating class in 2009) was hired in Texas for $88k a year with a promise of three raises spread out over two years that would bring him to a 6 digit salary. That could have been us.
For now, I'll save the sob stories of how tough internships and residencies can be for when I get to experience it for myself. Below are some interesting links to websites that talk about medical school debt and how it affects the lives of doctors. Its pretty interesting, but also kind of sad depending on which articles you read because the facts are quite sobering. Just writing all these facts down made me feel like I am already ready for this part of our lives to be over with and be able to have a job where David actually makes money. BUT I have to take a step back and remember that a) money won't solve everything and b) we can and will make it work. Darn life and all this waiting.
The Deceptive Income of Physicians
The Deceptive Income of Physicians
How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession
6 comments:
yes, no one really gets it unless they have been through it. The one consolation for us is that Steve loves what he does and would be bored in most other professions. Hopefully that is the same for David.
That is a lot of debt, and it's really hard to be in "bondage" when all you want is freedom to take care of your family. I will say, it is possible to pay down on debt while making only $50,000. Alan and I make SIGNIFICANTLY less than $50,000 and are paying on debt. It's not much, but it's definitely helping take down interest charges and get us free faster. With $50,000 you could make substantial payments as long as you focus on getting out of debt, and on the necessities of life. We don't have near as much debt as a doctor would, but we weren't very smart in school and took out too many loans in ratio to what kind of job we could get. You should check out Dave Ramsey if you haven't. He talks a lot about paying off debt on even a small amount of income; he's been a real inspiration to us. You guys are smart, frugal, and dedicated, you'll power through life even though it is tough. Good luck and I love you!
Man, it must be hard to be looking at a median radiologist salary of $376,401 upon completion of training with $250,000 in debt. (http://www1.salary.com/radiologist-Salary.html)
It must also be hard to be in the top 1% of salary earners when your spouse is in his 30s. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States)
I can see how you'd be stressed! The median salary for someone with an advanced degree is $73,738, and that's with an average debt load of $55,000! To expect to get by on a meager salary of $375k with a debt load of $250k seems almost impossible! I mean, I guess the only silver lining is that your husband didn't go to law school and rack up $80k in loans with an average starting salary of $62k. (http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/12/29/grad-school-math-which-degrees-are-worth-the-debt/) And it's great that your husband is so much smarter and more hard working than the pathetic average American household, which has 1.3 earners on average and includes people who have been working for 30 years... and only brings in a pathetic $50,000-$54,999.
All I can say is... so sorry for your hardship! Best of luck!
Ok, the above comment is just stupid. People just don't understand unless they have been through it. Period. Will we come out on top in the end... yes, but it does not mean that we don't struggle for 20 yrs before we get there. We have similar friends that stayed where we were after under grad (computer programmer) and are doing so great for them selves. Sometimes I wish we would of stayed. But I know Justin will love what he is doing better in the end. I feel for ya. And to be honest, I love that we have struggled the last 10 yrs of our marriage financially. We have learned SO much from it and it just makes you more appreciative when you do get to that point that you don't have to only shop clearance sections one day :)
Bottom line... dr's work VERY hard to get where they are at. They deserve the pay because my husband works like a dog along with all the other residents... he deserves compensation for it.
Thanks Ladies, haha and Anonymous. I think my main reason for writing this post was obvious. I have been feeling overwhelmed, I am not complaining. David and I are about to head into our internship year and we are trying to decide if we should pull out relocation loans since we have to move twice, if we are going to make payments on his loans during residency and so on. Especially since we can't put my loans into deference, if we had the choice we wouldn't pay on mine only David's. It's just a lot to think about and digest. AND lastly, it's a good thing I love David, he loves what he is doing and we aren't in this purely for the money or I wouldn't have agreed to it.
Three Words... Income Base Repayment. Saved us from having to pay anything on either of our loans for 2 years! If you need any advice on consolidating or anything loan related... Justin is a wizard!
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